Back in 1979, I was listening to my tiny clock radio at ten o’clock at night on a school night. I was just settling in and I always liked to doze off to a segment on the radio station KLZR called “Four Play.” I was only 13 and had no idea that phrase had any other meaning than the station playing four songs by different artists during the entire ten o’clock hour.

I vividly remember, on this night, hearing them introduce a band named ‘Triumph’ who I had never heard of. The first song started off very soft and then started rocking out and was called “Hold On.” Next was a tune called “Lay It On The Line.” The other two songs are lost to the mists of time but I was so impressed with the band that I made a note of the name and went down to Paul’s Records & Tapes in Topeka, Kansas the next day after school and bought the album Just a Game. I was an instant fan.

I snatched up the band’s next release, Progressions of Power and liked it, but not as much as Just a Game or Rock n Roll Machine. I hoped for better when I heard they were putting out a new album in 1981 titled Allied Forces. It was another first day purchase. By now, I was driving, so I cruised home, immediately put the record on the turntable, heard the first song and smilied. Triumph was back. Each song that came on seemed as good as, if not better, than the one before it. This was going to be a classic.

I hounded the guys at Paul’s to let me have two album-sized posters of Allied Forces they had on the record store wall and ended up with them on my wall for the next ten years. Sadly, they were lost in a flood and to this day I still miss those posters and remember them fondly.

Fast forward an incredible thirty years later, and I find myself on the phone with Mike Levine doing an interview about the very album that hung on my wall. More than that, however, is the fact that I call Mike, drummer Gil Moore and to a lesser extend, Rik Emmett, friends. Rik stays too busy and we never chat as much as I do with Mike or Gil.

During the interview that follows, Mike informed me that the band had autographed a copy of the 30^th anniversary, limited edition, vinyl copy of Allied Forces and sent it to me in the mail as a gift.

Its hard to believe that after all these years, due only to the magic power of the music, the artwork is back on my wall and the album back on my turntable once again.

Allied forces of rock n roll, indeed.

Mike: It is one of those records that you put on and had to listen through side one, and when you were finished with side one, you had to flip it over and listen to side two. I really thought side one of that record was incredible.

Mike: I used to buy albums for the cover. I would see a cool cover and want to check out the band just because of the cover. Sometimes you would discover a good band, and sometimes you would discover a bad band with a cool record cover.

I liked to pick up the cover, look at it and read the credits. The biggest disappointment to me was when you opened up a record and there was just a white sleeve inside, which was about 80% of albums at the time. Triumph always tried to make sure that we had cool stuff on the inside. We would fight with the record company, and they would tell us that it would cost an extra three cents an album and they would not spend it. We would fight with them and, most of the time, we won. Sometimes, we would have to compromise, but we usually won the battle.

Mike: That album could have been a career killer. I love the album but it was not what it should have been. We had no time to make that record and that was the problem. We were told we had to have an album out by such and such a date or else. The quality was just okay and the songs were just okay. The best song was “I Live For the Weekend.” The others were okay tunes but it just didn’t come out the way it should have.

Allied Forces was the one that brought it home. We got to make that album at our own studio, Metalworks. The only thing we had to worry about was the delivery date.

Mike: We were under big pressure. The University of Toronto has an archive of Triumph material, as we donated all of our stuff to the University. I was looking for the tapes for Allied Forces for the 30^th anniversary, limited edition, vinyl version we are putting out. We sent an entire semi of stuff to the University, and while it was all boxed up and fairly documented, it still took a lot of searching to find the tapes. In looking for the tapes, I found all of these threatening letters from the record company saying we needed to do this, or do that, and I was sitting there reading these letters, after all these years, and I was getting pretty pissed off about it. I had to stop reading them.

Mike: It was well known. It was all full disclosure. In general, I had to go to war with the record company and I needed their blessing, because it could have all blown up.

We knew we had to make a great record this time out. Just a Game had set us up and Progressions of Power had kept us level but knew in our heart of hearts, that we had to make a great record. The record company told us, in no uncertain terms, that we had to make a great record. I told them to stay out of our faces and that we would deliver a great record.

We recorded the album in late 1980. We had the pressure of touring and everything else. The pressure was unbelievable. Back then we were supposed to deliver two albums a year, which was crazy. We were fighting all of these legal battles. Reading those letters again really make me angry.

Mike: That one had two sets of lyrics. Rik wrote most of them. He brought the song in and it was called “Every Moment.” There was one line in the chorus that said, “fight the good fight.” We had recorded the song and Rik was putting a scratch vocal on it and I said, “Rik, those lyrics just don’t cut it.” I could just hear the deejay on WLRS in Louisville going, “That was Triumph with ‘Every Moment.’” It just didn’t have the same impact as the deejay saying, “That was Triumph with ‘Fight the Good Fight.’” Rik goes, “You’re fucking right, man.” He wrote a new set of lyrics; it made a huge difference. I am telling you, that song would have been nothing without being called “Fight the Good Fight.”

We had the time, and the luxury, to do that. There was no clock ticking and we didn’t have to worry about either going over the twenty-five thousand dollar budget, or running out of money. We had our own studio and it made a huge difference.

Mike: A band out of Vancouver had recorded there called Doug and the Slugs. The album actually went Gold. They were a cool band, actually. We spent three months recording our album. We blocked out all the time and we just went to work.

Mike: I was the quarterback. Rik wrote in this little letter we are doing for the website that I was the one in the studio all night and that I would call in Gil and him for suggestions. He said that I wouldn’t listen to them and I would just do what I wanted to anyway [laughter].

Mike: No, that was a work in progress. We recorded that song four or five times. It was too poppy, so to speak. It had the Triumph signatures in it but not enough of them. We tried to find a good drum beat for it and we were trying to make it heavier; we were really struggling. Finally, somebody said, “If we were the Who, how would we record this song?” The Who had a lot of pop hits but you still knew it was the Who. We knew we had to find a way to record this song and not make it so sappy and have it still be Triumph. It was a great song but we were just not doing it right. We Triumph-ized it and we slugged our way through it. One day, the magic was there and I was like, “That’s the one.”

Mike: Are you kidding? That song brought more women to our concerts. It brought more guys too, because where the girls go, the guys will follow. We went from 90% male at our concerts to 60-40 guys to girls. MTV helped with that song as well.

Mike: Lyrically, it was great and Gil sang the shit out of it. Sometimes in this business, you get lucky. You’ve got to be good to be lucky but sometimes you just get something on a song that makes it great.

Mike: I did the sequencing on that one and I thought it was the perfect song to open the record. Gil sang the shit out of it, too. It didn’t see the light of day at radio. I wanted that song to open the album because it was heavy and bluesy.

Mike: It wasn’t that difficult to make because it had a flow. There wasn’t anybody but us in the studio and that made a huge difference. We were able to experiment with things and make demos for the first time in our career. We were able to rehearse in the studio and then run tape. We were able to listen back and say, “That part sucks.” We had never been able to do that before. We learned so much about making records on that album.

Mike: We learned there was no such thing as perfect. We learned that there is no such thing as something being good just because you wrote it. As a band, we learned we could do things far beyond what we thought we could do.

I learned that to get a good vocal out of Rik I had to hang Penthouse centerfolds all over the walls and the floor.

Mike: Yeah, I don’t remember what song it was, but it just wasn’t working. I decided to try pictures of naked woman. I will do anything to get a good performance.

Mike: That song went number one at WLS in Chicago, which was the powerhouse Top 40 station. Three months later, it went back in either the Top 20, or Top 30. Chicago could not get enough of that song. We needed the record company behind us to carry that but they were not that interested in that song.

Mike: You can pick any station in a major market and I knew the Program Director, if he was married and if he had kids. When we came through town, I didn’t stay at the hotel; I stayed at their house.

Mike: The Midwest was very kind to us. Drake Hall ran a station in Louisville, WLRF, and he was the guy who was responsible for breaking “Lay It On the Line.” He was just amazing and he made sure that song was a hit.

Mike: They didn’t go one track back then. You would get to hear three tracks and people would get to hear three songs off of the album and then decide if they wanted to buy it or not. That was then and this is now…ah, the good old days.

Mike: That was very good for a guy from the Midwest.

Mike: I am impressed.

Mike: We made songs, but we also make records. We were very concerned about how it would sit on the shelf. We wanted to reproduce the songs live and we wanted to make sure we made it work, right off the shelf.

When we did shows, Rik would pick a couple spots and sit down on a stool and play those parts. You could hear a pin drop in the theater. Rik was the rock god guitar player and this was a way for people to hear something different. I called it a separator, which allowed us to take a break from pounding away all the time. If you play that instrumental piece in a show, then it actually ends up making the louder stuff that much louder. We recorded a lot of songs with the thought of, “How will this work in the show?”

Mike: Good question. Let me think about this, I’m not sure we ever played “Fool For Your Love” live. I know we tried “Ordinary Man” but everyone fell asleep. It is a great song with the headphones on but it just didn’t work live. We played “Hot Time” a lot as it really had a lot of cool stuff.

Mike: At the time, we had a publicist named Howard Bloom and he really thought that we were on the edge of being the prog rock, heavy rock band that could be commercial. He would plant ideas in our brains.

Rik came up with this song and we loved recording it but when we tried to play it live, it didn’t fly at all. Another song of ours, “The Blinding Light Show” was proggy but it went down great live. The song was the same thing in a lot of ways, but it just didn’t work. It is hard to explain, but it was one of those things where we thought it had an interesting sound and we decided to put it on the record. There was no war about “Ordinary Man” at all. There was a war about “Say Goodbye” because Gil hated it.

Mike: He thought it was way to pop. It was a real battle. Whenever Rik and Gil would fight about something then they would come to me and I would be the deciding vote. My decision was always based upon who gave me the most cash [laughter].

Mike: The initial concept was Rik’s. Dean was building him a Flying V guitar at the time; he didn’t own one yet. The sword that goes up into the guitar is from a patch that the American Forces use. It was all Rik’s idea.

The only album that our faces were on was Progressions of Power and that was because we let the record company be involved in that record. We decided that we would never put our faces on an album again because nobody cares what we look like. We need a good, strong image. Our faces were kind of on Rock n’ Roll Machine but not like Progressions of Power.

Mike: No, I didn’t care. We were the number one most added act on album radio the week it came out and that is all I cared about. It didn’t matter after that; they could write whatever they wanted.

If I would line up the great reviews with the horrible reviews then it would be about 50/50. I don’t read reviews and I don’t listen, or read, interviews when they are done.

We would play a show and I would ask if we got a headline, if it was big and if we had a picture. If we had all of that, then that was perfect; it didn’t matter what it said.

Mike: Colonel Parker used to send us a telegram at the start of our current tour that said, “The best of luck.” Pat Kelleher was the head of artist relations at RCA Records, God rest his soul, he passed away quite a while ago. Pat used to travel with us, and Pat used to travel with Elvis. After Elvis past away, Pat didn’t know what to do. I used to go into the RCA building with him, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, and people on the elevator would say, “Pat, do you still work here?” as they had not seen him in years. Pat, basically, worked for the Colonel, but he was RCA’s liaison to Elvis.

When we played Memphis, we got a private tour of Graceland. We got to lie on the beds and we had the run of the house because Pat knew all of the guys that took care of the place.

On the Just a Game tour, we played the Santa Monica Civic Center. I was in the dressing room before the show and Pat said, “Come with me.” I said, “Where are we going?” He took me to the loading dock, behind the building, and I saw the largest limousine I had ever seen in my life. Pat said, “Get in.” I got in and there was the Colonel. We had a nice chat for about ten minutes. He said, “Remember, the number one thing is that the money is all in the merchandise. I wish you the best of luck in your career. Pat tells me you’re doing great.” It was amazing. I couldn’t believe who I had just talked to.

Mike: We never opened for anybody, ever. We would open on a stadium show but those were just huge events where everybody was part of the show. Indoors, we never opened for anyone.

Mike: It was Foghat or Molly Hatchet. I used to watch Foghat a lot as they were really great live. Hatchet was just off the wall and all we did was fight with them. They were trying to pay off the crew to get more lights. We used to laugh a lot. Later on, we toured with Bad Company and they were the best. I think it was the Thunder Seven tour. Every show was in a big arena and they were all sold out.

On the first show, Bad Company was like watching paint dry. Without Paul Rodgers they had a big problem. It was good musically, but there was nothing going on stage, I mean nothing. We came out and we were running all over the stage and having fun. The next night, the guitar player, Mick Ralphs, who was nailed to the floor the first night, started to loosen up. By the third night, they were having fun. That was a great tour because every house was full, not an empty seat.

Mike: We got close before the last recession. We almost did it but we didn’t want to risk it. Now, I open the newspaper and the market is down again. There is no way I’m going out when nobody can afford to go to a show. All of our best markets are in a deep recession. People have to decide whether to go to a show or pay their rent and I don’t want to go out in that environment. I don’t want to play to half a house; if we don’t sell out then I’m not interested. I thought the economy was coming back and we were starting to talk about making plans but now just doesn’t seem like a good time.

Mike: As long as we are still alive we can go out and play.

Mike: We get together every month or two and have dinner, or lunch. We did Rockline the other night and we got together beforehand. We laugh all the time when we’re together and there is nothing like that feeling; it’s fabulous. Are you a baseball fan?

Mike: Do you remember Buck Martinez?

Mike: He played for the Royals, and he was on ESPN for a while. He is now the voice of the Toronto Blue Jays. Rik, Gil and I were at a restaurant that was near the studio where we were going to do the Rockline show and Rik goes, “Guys, Buck Martinez keeps staring at me.” I looked over and saw Buck sitting at the bar. I go, “Rik, he’s not staring at you. There is a TV right above you.” We all laughed out loud.

Mike: The packaging is awesome. I didn’t get product until the other day. It is unbelievable how nice it is. I have an old turntable and I put it on yesterday and it fucking sounds huge. I just started laughing at how cool it is. We sent you an autographed copy, so keep a lookout for that in mail.

You have no idea how hard this package was to put together. It was next to impossible to get someone to make a four-color sleeve; they don’t make them anymore. You can get gatefold jackets done easily but you can’t get a four-color inner sleeve. I called in every favor from everyone that I knew because I wanted a nice, coated, heavyduty inner sleeve. It had to be like the original – only it had to be better. I got it done. The weight of the vinyl is heavy and the gloss on the package is nice. I just sit there and I hold it and I admire it. I could have made 12 records with the work I put into this. It really is a limited edition. I think there were 1100 units made, or something like that. I’m not making any more of them. It is a really cool package.

Mike: Do me a favor; the one thing I did notice is that it shows fingerprints. I was signing it and I noticed the fingerprints. So, before you put it up, you might want to wipe it off with a dust rag first.

Mike: [laughter] I guess that is true.

Mike: I wish it had been my idea but I didn’t think to do this. The guys who run the website for us came up with the idea. They said, “We need an event for the 30^th anniversary of Allied Forces.” I agreed that was a great event and we did the t-shirts, and then we did the vinyl. It was like Welcome to My Nightmare after that because it was so hard to get that damn inner sleeve done. But we did it and it really came out great. You can tell I’m enthused about it.

www.triumphmusic.com